Loved reading your notes and broadly agree with all points except for the part where you state that a lack of R&D culture is due to lack of focus on IP protection. As per my readings and understanding it is more a question of need rather than protection, indian firms don't invest in R&D because they don't need to, their revenues are protected by high import duties and high competitive barriers against international products and services which boils down to more government presence in business activities rather then less as argued here (essentially overregulation)
Good article, and I agree with most of your observations except the part about upper-caste people not hiring lower-caste people. Either you’ve come across biased data, or there’s a misunderstanding of how caste actually functions. I’ve seen small companies struggle to hire quality employees simply because it’s much harder to train workers with minimal education in India compared to countries like the US or China.
India has 121 languages, and many people from lower-income groups study in state-run public schools where the medium of instruction is their regional language. So even basic training in a common language becomes a real challenge.
From what I’ve seen, the issue isn’t caste as much as it is cultural. Hierarchies in India are often defined by the language you speak, the kind of job you do, and several overlapping factors like region and education. Countries like China or the US don’t experience this level of linguistic and class fragmentation.
I hope to see India move toward a place where every worker, no matter what kind of job they do, is treated with dignity.
Thank you! And this is a great point. The educational and linguistic fragmentation make a lot of sense as driving factors, as well as class beyond caste.
very amusing that many indians jump in to dismiss caste just because an outsider pointed it out. ofcourse its not simply ‘upper caste wont hire lower caste’ but it is very much a factor in the lack of fair employment conditions or why higher strata of corporate, business or government officials belong mostly to certain caste groups. if anyone in India says they do not see caste, they’re probably benefiting off it very much to ‘not see it’.
sure, next time just ask the domestic workers, sanitary workers, construction workers or any daily wage worker for that matter how much rent they make by seeing caste.
im sorry you speak for all workers? I have heard from domestic, sanitary and migrant workers themselves in multiple forums in Delhi and Bengaluru about how caste is an added layer to their struggles.
And i dont know what world you live in but I would be really happy to see a progressive world where a Brahmin worker goes to clean the shit in the septic tanks in any part of the country. It has been documented in decades of research how lower castes have the highest proportion in lesser paying labour, and the opposite trend in corporate executives.
And you said they make rent from ‘seeing caste’ - the people I talked about face the opposite, they are shown their caste at every point in their life, and if at all, they lose rent because of it, or at best, they survive despite of it. Who benefits from their caste mobility such that it makes them money? Oh right, the Baniyas and other upper caste groups. In fact that exactly is the problem.
A surprisingly level headed take on India, and I largely agree on all points except for the caste issue pointed out - it's not as simple as "upper castes not hiring lower castes". I appreciate your appreciation for the unrecognised, unheralded diplomatic maneuvering that led to the integration of more than 500 princely states into the modern Indian Union.
I’m yet to see a British governor’s statue/portrait anywhere inside IISc but there could be one. However, you’re quite wrong about Indians as a nation having residual fondness for British rule - it might be an artifact of the people and places you were hanging out.
As you point out elsewhere in the piece, we have a small elite, and that elite has much closer ties to the West than the rest of India, so their homes and hotels aren’t representative of the general mood. My grandfather loved the British because he thought they made the trains run on time, and we had a raging argument when I asked him why he didn't join the independence struggle.
However, I am very much in agreement with the claim that caste infiltrates all aspects of social relations in India, including HR practices. The 'annihilation of caste' (Google the phrase!) is a necessary step towards a better society.
I certainly am shocked to know this too! "There are two Indias: formal and informal. I found it shocking that of 80-90% of Indians do not participate in the formal economy, and that of the 1.5B people in India, only 200m are formally employed at best."
One more point - India is home to Family (owned and managed) Business setups compared to US that has companies run by professionals but owned by families across generations.
As a result, it’s not about cutting lanes to reach somewhere, but these family businesses tend to create barriers for new companies. Usually, they are in the form of regulations, access to capital, manpower, business opportunities, etc.
It’s just easier when you have wealth that enables you connections, infrastructure and access to further capital.
However, there is a massive shift in this. It’s not quite visible at the moment. Give it 10 more years, the next generation entrepreneurs are going to outpace the family run businesses.
And all this discussion around caste will slowly go away.
I loved reading through these cultural observations. Fun observation on Tex-Mex -- from my time in Tokyo I was surprised by how much everyone was really getting into Mexican food.
Curious what else you'll see while you're there, or if you'll spend any time in more rural areas before you head back.
~ I think that's one of the major reason that made India in much deplorable situation.
The Congress party who ruled the country for 60 years almost, beginning from its early leaders were Anglophilics & that's why the power transfer during Independence was done to them & thus the post-Coloniality continued instead of decolonisation as in the case of those post-Colonial states were even less harmed than India.
We continued the same British Laws, Acts, institutions after 'independence' which were the 'steel frame' of the Rāj as our founding fathers of the Republic saw them as safe & readymade option rather than early overhauling so there's a saying popular in India "The White Sahibs went but was replaced by the Brown Sahibs" i.e the British Raj has been substituted by a Desi(Brown) Raj.
So nothing much improved unlike other formerly colonised nations(not necessarily Africa but also ASEAN) even though we were in the worst conditions even in the beginning after Independence - such was the colonial humiliation.
Ironically, the British gave property rights but our Anglophilic founding fathers influenced again by British Fabian Socialism cancelled them for Nationalisation purposes.
Surprisingly unlike rest of the world, so decolonisation in India is Right-Wing topic though it shouldn't be changing just city names but institutions & Statecraft Overhauling thus, transforming the post-Colonial State nature to a civilisational one(which it Rightly shall be).
2) Regarding BJP vs Cong: Cong got a very bad PR after their 6 decade rule. BJP wins not because it's good but because others are worse.
BJP is indeed polarising but it's for rhetorics, token hate speech, rants, optics but Congress(& allies) did polarisation through the countless constitutional amendments & legal terms in the opposite angle. Afterwards, India doesn't legally define the term "secularism" so it's a jackpot for every party in India.
3) Regarding Deregulation. While it's popular among our policy maker elites & Economically literate population, but it's not that it's unpopular among masses exactly. They just don't understand it or isn't literate enough that how it's their benefit as they're being brainwashed by Statism since 7 decades where the state even fixes movie pricing.
Also there's a huge no. unions & political pressure groups who like protest for anything from agricultural reforms bill (which almost took to the verge of a colour revolution!) to municipal service Privatisation.
The real cause it's knowledge which makes such stuffs popular.
There're educated classes who wants $50k gdp per capita countries service but won't prefer reforms of Deng's or even Vietnamese levels!!
Also they're also ignorant of how Liberalisation would be the owe to India's caste problems without affirmative action killing endless talent as it's been proven in many economic journals (check 'Capitalism's Sprawl on Indian Caste System').
I agree with about 50% of your observations. Will point out a few which are the major errors, but don't take it as a criticism of the note as a whole as there are many interesting takes.
Caste is not binary in India, its a messy structure where among so called lower castes also there is social discrimination with each other. Also its not uniform across India. Some states like Bihar are more caste oriented than others, especially in terms of discrimination. About discrimination based on caste, coming from a business family myself, I have never noticed this. There is a general lack of discipline and a lot of alcoholism, which leaves little available labour for factories. No business owner can even afford to discriminate based on caste given the shortage of labour. Free doles only make it worse to find labour. Factory owners love good, honest workers given their shortage.
Language based discrimination is more prevalent in offices (not factories), though its also mostly prevalent amongst Tamils, Telugus, Oriya, and Bengalis / Punjabis to an extent. Caste may play a role in office politics, but I am yet to see any open discrimination given the strong laws against it, unlike language based discrimination, which is prevalent and openly practiced. Also caste based reservations negatively affect the way people may see people coming in through reservations, which I don't think is the same as caste discrimination.
About the British governors' pictures etc. its a surprise for me and I'm sure for most Indians. Yes, Indian governance is still modelled on British methods, but the current government is trying to change those, but legal setup has seen no changes and remains old British system. In general life, there is no love lost for British rule at all.
The 80-90% of population not participating in "formal" economy sounds like an exaggeration, though I don't have any data to support this. Formalization has increased a lot in the last few decades, and my guess would be about 40-50% of working population being in formal sector now.
Loved reading your notes and broadly agree with all points except for the part where you state that a lack of R&D culture is due to lack of focus on IP protection. As per my readings and understanding it is more a question of need rather than protection, indian firms don't invest in R&D because they don't need to, their revenues are protected by high import duties and high competitive barriers against international products and services which boils down to more government presence in business activities rather then less as argued here (essentially overregulation)
Good article, and I agree with most of your observations except the part about upper-caste people not hiring lower-caste people. Either you’ve come across biased data, or there’s a misunderstanding of how caste actually functions. I’ve seen small companies struggle to hire quality employees simply because it’s much harder to train workers with minimal education in India compared to countries like the US or China.
India has 121 languages, and many people from lower-income groups study in state-run public schools where the medium of instruction is their regional language. So even basic training in a common language becomes a real challenge.
From what I’ve seen, the issue isn’t caste as much as it is cultural. Hierarchies in India are often defined by the language you speak, the kind of job you do, and several overlapping factors like region and education. Countries like China or the US don’t experience this level of linguistic and class fragmentation.
I hope to see India move toward a place where every worker, no matter what kind of job they do, is treated with dignity.
Thank you! And this is a great point. The educational and linguistic fragmentation make a lot of sense as driving factors, as well as class beyond caste.
A remarkably honest and almost correct assessment of India, its work culture , polity & that too in a week.
very amusing that many indians jump in to dismiss caste just because an outsider pointed it out. ofcourse its not simply ‘upper caste wont hire lower caste’ but it is very much a factor in the lack of fair employment conditions or why higher strata of corporate, business or government officials belong mostly to certain caste groups. if anyone in India says they do not see caste, they’re probably benefiting off it very much to ‘not see it’.
Those who “see” caste are chaos merchants who wish to or already do rent seek using it.
sure, next time just ask the domestic workers, sanitary workers, construction workers or any daily wage worker for that matter how much rent they make by seeing caste.
1. All caste groups are represented in all occupational categories.
2. Most of those workers don't perceive of caste the way you do.
3. You are some insane shit if you believe that their occupation prevents them from rent seeking.
im sorry you speak for all workers? I have heard from domestic, sanitary and migrant workers themselves in multiple forums in Delhi and Bengaluru about how caste is an added layer to their struggles.
And i dont know what world you live in but I would be really happy to see a progressive world where a Brahmin worker goes to clean the shit in the septic tanks in any part of the country. It has been documented in decades of research how lower castes have the highest proportion in lesser paying labour, and the opposite trend in corporate executives.
And you said they make rent from ‘seeing caste’ - the people I talked about face the opposite, they are shown their caste at every point in their life, and if at all, they lose rent because of it, or at best, they survive despite of it. Who benefits from their caste mobility such that it makes them money? Oh right, the Baniyas and other upper caste groups. In fact that exactly is the problem.
On some insane shit*
A surprisingly level headed take on India, and I largely agree on all points except for the caste issue pointed out - it's not as simple as "upper castes not hiring lower castes". I appreciate your appreciation for the unrecognised, unheralded diplomatic maneuvering that led to the integration of more than 500 princely states into the modern Indian Union.
Hey Jason your article is very well thought out. your observations are quite accurate.
I’m yet to see a British governor’s statue/portrait anywhere inside IISc but there could be one. However, you’re quite wrong about Indians as a nation having residual fondness for British rule - it might be an artifact of the people and places you were hanging out.
As you point out elsewhere in the piece, we have a small elite, and that elite has much closer ties to the West than the rest of India, so their homes and hotels aren’t representative of the general mood. My grandfather loved the British because he thought they made the trains run on time, and we had a raging argument when I asked him why he didn't join the independence struggle.
However, I am very much in agreement with the claim that caste infiltrates all aspects of social relations in India, including HR practices. The 'annihilation of caste' (Google the phrase!) is a necessary step towards a better society.
I certainly am shocked to know this too! "There are two Indias: formal and informal. I found it shocking that of 80-90% of Indians do not participate in the formal economy, and that of the 1.5B people in India, only 200m are formally employed at best."
Fascinating to read from a foreign national’s perspective, how india is perceived !
Very well written. Bookmarking it to re-read in the future.
Well observed.
One more point - India is home to Family (owned and managed) Business setups compared to US that has companies run by professionals but owned by families across generations.
As a result, it’s not about cutting lanes to reach somewhere, but these family businesses tend to create barriers for new companies. Usually, they are in the form of regulations, access to capital, manpower, business opportunities, etc.
It’s just easier when you have wealth that enables you connections, infrastructure and access to further capital.
However, there is a massive shift in this. It’s not quite visible at the moment. Give it 10 more years, the next generation entrepreneurs are going to outpace the family run businesses.
And all this discussion around caste will slowly go away.
I loved reading through these cultural observations. Fun observation on Tex-Mex -- from my time in Tokyo I was surprised by how much everyone was really getting into Mexican food.
Curious what else you'll see while you're there, or if you'll spend any time in more rural areas before you head back.
Mexican food deserves to take over the culinary world for sure :)
The next true innovation wave will be Mexican fast-casual in Asia.
1) Regarding the colonial History point.
~ I think that's one of the major reason that made India in much deplorable situation.
The Congress party who ruled the country for 60 years almost, beginning from its early leaders were Anglophilics & that's why the power transfer during Independence was done to them & thus the post-Coloniality continued instead of decolonisation as in the case of those post-Colonial states were even less harmed than India.
We continued the same British Laws, Acts, institutions after 'independence' which were the 'steel frame' of the Rāj as our founding fathers of the Republic saw them as safe & readymade option rather than early overhauling so there's a saying popular in India "The White Sahibs went but was replaced by the Brown Sahibs" i.e the British Raj has been substituted by a Desi(Brown) Raj.
So nothing much improved unlike other formerly colonised nations(not necessarily Africa but also ASEAN) even though we were in the worst conditions even in the beginning after Independence - such was the colonial humiliation.
Ironically, the British gave property rights but our Anglophilic founding fathers influenced again by British Fabian Socialism cancelled them for Nationalisation purposes.
Surprisingly unlike rest of the world, so decolonisation in India is Right-Wing topic though it shouldn't be changing just city names but institutions & Statecraft Overhauling thus, transforming the post-Colonial State nature to a civilisational one(which it Rightly shall be).
2) Regarding BJP vs Cong: Cong got a very bad PR after their 6 decade rule. BJP wins not because it's good but because others are worse.
BJP is indeed polarising but it's for rhetorics, token hate speech, rants, optics but Congress(& allies) did polarisation through the countless constitutional amendments & legal terms in the opposite angle. Afterwards, India doesn't legally define the term "secularism" so it's a jackpot for every party in India.
3) Regarding Deregulation. While it's popular among our policy maker elites & Economically literate population, but it's not that it's unpopular among masses exactly. They just don't understand it or isn't literate enough that how it's their benefit as they're being brainwashed by Statism since 7 decades where the state even fixes movie pricing.
Also there's a huge no. unions & political pressure groups who like protest for anything from agricultural reforms bill (which almost took to the verge of a colour revolution!) to municipal service Privatisation.
The real cause it's knowledge which makes such stuffs popular.
There're educated classes who wants $50k gdp per capita countries service but won't prefer reforms of Deng's or even Vietnamese levels!!
Also they're also ignorant of how Liberalisation would be the owe to India's caste problems without affirmative action killing endless talent as it's been proven in many economic journals (check 'Capitalism's Sprawl on Indian Caste System').
very insightful! farm laws were truly the one that got away.
I agree with about 50% of your observations. Will point out a few which are the major errors, but don't take it as a criticism of the note as a whole as there are many interesting takes.
Caste is not binary in India, its a messy structure where among so called lower castes also there is social discrimination with each other. Also its not uniform across India. Some states like Bihar are more caste oriented than others, especially in terms of discrimination. About discrimination based on caste, coming from a business family myself, I have never noticed this. There is a general lack of discipline and a lot of alcoholism, which leaves little available labour for factories. No business owner can even afford to discriminate based on caste given the shortage of labour. Free doles only make it worse to find labour. Factory owners love good, honest workers given their shortage.
Language based discrimination is more prevalent in offices (not factories), though its also mostly prevalent amongst Tamils, Telugus, Oriya, and Bengalis / Punjabis to an extent. Caste may play a role in office politics, but I am yet to see any open discrimination given the strong laws against it, unlike language based discrimination, which is prevalent and openly practiced. Also caste based reservations negatively affect the way people may see people coming in through reservations, which I don't think is the same as caste discrimination.
About the British governors' pictures etc. its a surprise for me and I'm sure for most Indians. Yes, Indian governance is still modelled on British methods, but the current government is trying to change those, but legal setup has seen no changes and remains old British system. In general life, there is no love lost for British rule at all.
The 80-90% of population not participating in "formal" economy sounds like an exaggeration, though I don't have any data to support this. Formalization has increased a lot in the last few decades, and my guess would be about 40-50% of working population being in formal sector now.
Also, for you to learn more about the ground realities of caste-based discrimination in India - def recco watching Homebound. Beautiful movie!